Double blade ?

[pake rick]

Hey Swift. As another lurker from that ‘other’ site, I’ve been meaning to ask you; When double blading in the canoe, do you also bring along a standard type of paddle? In thinking about the types of water I go, there are times when that extra length or type of stroke might be tough. Such as the Boulder River mentioned in another thread. Lac La Croix is big water, but interconnecting routes…..?

Tell me more please. 😎

rick

[AndyLee]

I’m one of the ones who enjoys using a double blade for canoe travel. I’ve done some pretty good GPS tests for speed and distance and find the double blade, in general, adds about 1/2 mile per hour to my speed and it balances the work between both sides of my body so I feel less tired at the end of the day. That easily adds another hour of paddling to each day, and I don’t have to take Ibuprofen as soon as I step out of the canoe.

IMHO the double blade is especially useful going upstream and going against the wind. I can apply full power and not have to worry about correction strokes. However, as soon as the whitewater starts I switch back to a single blade. Also, for silent running I much prefer the single blade. I find it all but impossible to keep a double blade silent on entry or exit. Always a “plop” on entry and a “splash” on exit. Sometimes that noise really gets to me and I know its time to single blade for a while until my nerves sooth out.

The double blade I used for a while is a Lendal carbon 250cm. I found that at 220cm it’s a perfect double blade but at 250cm it cavitates. I didn’t understand that until Patrick from Onno Paddles explained the dynamic of the longer shaft un-balancing the blade. Now I prefer the Werner Camano Carbon. It comes the closest I’ve found for silent strokes. I also have a Bending Branches Day Breeze 250cm. The single blade I prefer is a Werner Bandit carbon.

Not to start yet another “discussion” but there are, of course, a number of paddlers who feel single blade is the way it should be; for tradition I suppose. It’s surprising the single bladers who have jeered at my double blade as I breeze by them in their kevlar canoe and carbon bent shaft. Neither the kevlar or the bent shaft is very traditional IMHO, and certainly not as fast under most conditions as the double. I’m not challenging anyone, just sharing my experience. Okay, now I’ll stop rambling

[Preacher]

I keep meaning to try it after watching someone solo into wind and wave on Obabika like it was nothing. Single paddle takes a couple strokes to build up momentum, recovery is an opportunity to get turned off course.

[SWIFT]

Solos paddler on Obabika?? Hmm… I wonder if that WAS me? I was there about a month ago, solo, and fighting the wind. I certainly wouldn’t say it was “nothing” but much more do-able than with a canoe paddle.

Pake, I usually don’t bring an extra paddle. I have, but it’s usually a judgment call based on the trip plan. For that matter I will bring my lighter, length adjustable carbon fibre paddle for larger lake travel, and/or more familiar trips. But when the trip includes rivers, or areas that are more remote and unfamiliar I will bring my poly, or “plastic” paddle for the security that it’s stronger, but it’s heavier.

Because I only own one boat (a tandem Swift Dumoine in kevlar) soloing it with a regular canoe paddle is difficult. So I very rarely will bring my canoe paddle as back up, but rather maybe my other double blade paddle as back up.

As for WW, I still find it easier with a double blade paddle. I know what you mean though. It was kinda odd to change what you know, or what you are accustomed to, in using a canoe paddle for white-water, but it was still a easyish move, and a better move.

As for “tradition” well what can I say. To me, sticking with a canoe paddle for the sake of tradition is like sticking to a drummond canoe, in stead of upgrading to a lighter kevlar boat for portaging. But to each their own. I will admit though the the only drawback that I can think of is it a wetter ride with a kayak paddle. In that as paddle hand over hand, the paddle drips water along the shaft and may sprinkle your thighs. So you may really want to reconsider the risks to the change over:rolleyes:

I say try with an open mind. Bring it as the spare. And I dout you’ll go back to a canoe paddle ever again. Unless you are bound and determined to prove it to fail before you give it a chance?

[Dan Miller]

Not to start yet another “discussion” but there are, of course, a number of paddlers who feel single blade is the way it should be; for tradition I suppose.

FWIW, the very roots of the American Canoe Association are firmly embedded in the double-paddle canoe… the d-p is every bit as “traditional” as the single-bladed paddle in “modern recreational canoeing”.

Was up in Thousand Island Park a few weeks ago (during Antique Boat Show in Clayton), and visited and antique shop with a few of my canoeing buddies. In the window was an odd stick with a handle on each end, about which the proprietor couldn’t tell us anything. What is was, was a pair of canoe handles on mating ferrules, which you could take apart and set into half of your double paddle, turning each half into a single paddle. Pretty clever, those folks back then 😉

Cheers,
Dan

[Rhaslam]

Of course, I’m speaking from ignorance, because I didn’t spend any time learning the dark side, but I’m trying to get my head around how a double blade is used with a canoe effectively once one hits the whitewater. Are you able to plant an effective draw or crossbow or pry without an effective grip hand? How bout back ferries? Plus what’s the average lenght of a two blade for a big canoe…215 cm or more? How’s that work with must make eddies and sweepers and stuff? It’s one thing to push a little play boat around with a double blade, but I would have to be convinced you could get the same results with a fully loaded 16 foot plus tripping canoe. I profess my ignorance of the dark arts, but am open to conversion. Got any video of someone running a 16 foot tripping canoe down class 3 with a double blade?

[SWIFT]

Rhaslam, it would seem you are a steadfast non-believer, and that’s cool. But if I am correct in judging your textual tone (which I could be misunderstanding) I get the impression that I have to defend rather than share my position on the double blade issue. I just simply prefer it to a single, I am sharing my opinions, but choose what you prefer, period.

However if I am reading more in to your tone than intended, then in the spirit of discussion, perhaps I should make it clear that i generally don’t do WW, (ain’t my thing, got bored of it ages ago). The question I addressed was do I bring an extra paddle for when I encounter WW? My answerer was “no” I don’t bring an additional paddle, particularly a canoe paddle. That generally speaking I manage to navigate the WW with a kayak paddle just fine. To me it’s an easy jump in understanding, in that kayakers with kayak paddles, handle the WW rather skillfully, if not better than canoers with canoe paddles (not to get into any “kayak vs canoe pissing contest” – two different sports two different opinions – I enjoy both – no need to argue).

Secondly (as I’ve further clarified in another thread) I have better success paddling from the stern when tripping. So paddle length is not much of an issue as one would imagine. I have 2 paddles, one of 230 poly, and an adjustable carbon fibre of 225-245cm in length. Again when doing WW I would go in the middle. This is of course all based on soloing. A well choreographed tandem attempt can be quite impressive on WW, but of course pry’s and such are not a technique that is utilized, but is one that can be used in the exact same fashion as if a canoe paddle was in your hand with perhaps even longer and better leverage?

My two cents, take what of it you will, and enjoy.

[Rhaslam]

Difficult to convey tone, humour sometimes become sarcasm, etc. I’m all in favour of increasing efficiency, and that’s why for quite a while I was a switch paddler. I’m not sure why I got tired of that, and I’m not saying that I won’t go back to it someday. I’ll admit that I have a prejudice to single blading, but wouldn’t mind being convinced otherwise. My questions about white water aren’t impertinent, but actual questions…most routes up here are combination routes of flatwater and a fair amount of white water….so the questins still stands…how does double blade technique work in whitewater with a fully loaded tandem canoe? Not looking for a defence of the dark arts, just some comments from experienced users.

[pake rick]

Thanks Swift and Rhaslam for the responses.

Actually I’m anxious to try this idea and in fact am going tonight to a yak shop to try out a few blades. But, and I didn’t make my question clear I’m sure, when I mentioned the Boulder River I should have said that it is not fast moving WW, but rather slow moving, meandering water through a boulder field. In that case my single blade Otter Tail isn’t of much value either because it’s a deep water blade. In the case of shallow, bouldery water a square nosed shovel would probably work better. 🙂

Anyway, I guess the point is; you bring what you think you’re going to need right?

thanks

pake

[Skanke]

I use a double blade on flat water but feel I have more control in WW with the single (prys and draws are much easier with the single blade). My most recent trip was 650k on the North Saskatchewan my canoe was very heavy (I was carring gear my kids couldn’t in their rec kayaks) so was around 800 lbs solo in a 17′ royalex prospecter. In moderate wind the double was good but when the wind vaning got bad the single blade gave me more control using an indian stroke (paddle didn’t leave the water). While cruising on the flat still stuff the double blade gave me about 1-2 km an hr faster. I always take both types of blades with me and switch as I see fit.

[OneBadApple]

i’ll try (almost) anyhing once and SWIFT do you think it’ll work from my kipawa extra seat(right behind the carry yoke)when and if i go solo, also in the stern seat when im shuttle-in the little woman around in front cuz honestly if she could jus sit there and suck down her chilli-pops she’d be a much happier canoe’r and im thinkin i’d stay dryer and get good enough power trying one of them longer (250cm-280cm) bending branches is calling a solo canoe double blade in wood now just so you know for any suggestions here im 220lbs- 6’2″ and really dig them kneeling pads that came in my boat with my arse resting on the edge of seat…
thanxs
oba

[SWIFT]

Check the other thread, the one you started about the paddle. But to quickly answer here, at “6-2” you might find 260ish (no longer) might actually work for you. I said “too long” in the other thread, but I didn’t realize you were so tall. I am 5-11 and 245cm is a great length for me, so 260cm’s ummm… might be ok for you.

You just gotta try it.

[Author]

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